| Title | Music, Poetry, and Politics in Averroes’s Commentary on Plato’s “Republic” |
| Type | Book Section |
| Language | English |
| Date | 2022 |
| Published in | Plato's Republic in the Islamic Context. New Perspectives on Averroes's Commentary |
| Pages | 87–110 |
| Categories | Poetics, Politics, Plato |
| Author(s) | Douglas Kries |
| Publisher(s) | |
| Translator(s) |
| As our title announces, the current essay will explore three subjects that, in Averroes's Commentary on Plato's “Republic,” lead from one into another, almost like a short series of stepping-stones. The first part of the essay will consider the treatment of music in the Commentary, arguing that Averroes effectively reduces music to poetry. The second of the stepping-stones will show that the Commentary credits poetry with educating the young especially and in that way transforms poetry into a political art for disciplining and educating citizens. The third will take up the question of the Andalusian's extended criticism of poetry's common practice of offering pleasurable prizes and rewards for virtue and show how the Commentator applies this criticism of poetry to the very author on whom he is commenting. In pursuing all three of these questions, we will focus squarely on Averroes's Commentary on Plato's “Republic,” attempting to understand that text on its own terms but against its obvious background, the Republic of Plato. Nevertheless, in pursuing the teaching of The Commentary on Plato's “Republic,” we cannot neglect the important research that has been done in recent decades on classical Islamic philosophy's understanding of Aristotle's Organon generally and of the Poetics in particular. We will therefore turn to the reports of other scholars on these aspects of Averroes, at least to the extent that such reports will be helpful in enabling us to understand better the Commentary on Plato's “Republic.” In the Republic, Plato initiates his analysis of the education of the guardians with a discussion of music in the latter portions of book 2; that discussion extends through much of book 3. Averroes's corresponding treatment of the education of the guardians through music is in the “First Treatise” of the Commentary, mostly in a relatively lengthy and isolable section that extends from 29.9 through 36.5. During his treatment of music, Plato divides his subject into three parts: “melody is composed of three things—speech, harmonic mode, and rhythm.” Averroes seems to accept this division, although he inverts the order of the three elements: “A melody occurring in a narrative is composed of three things: rhythm, harmonic mode, and the speech to which the melody is set” (34.30–31). |
{"_index":"bib","_type":"_doc","_id":"5350","_score":null,"_source":{"id":5350,"authors_free":[{"id":6200,"entry_id":5350,"agent_type":"person","is_normalised":null,"person_id":null,"institution_id":null,"role":{"id":1,"role_name":"author"},"free_name":"Douglas Kries","free_first_name":"Douglas","free_last_name":"Kries","norm_person":null}],"entry_title":"Music, Poetry, and Politics in Averroes\u2019s Commentary on Plato\u2019s \u201cRepublic\u201d","title_transcript":"","title_translation":"","main_title":{"title":"Music, Poetry, and Politics in Averroes\u2019s Commentary on Plato\u2019s \u201cRepublic\u201d"},"abstract":"As our title announces, the current essay will explore three subjects that, in Averroes's Commentary on Plato's \u201cRepublic,\u201d lead from one into another, almost like a short series of stepping-stones. The first part of the essay will consider the treatment of music in the Commentary, arguing that Averroes effectively reduces music to poetry. The second of the stepping-stones will show that the Commentary credits poetry with educating the young especially and in that way transforms poetry into a political art for disciplining and educating citizens. The third will take up the question of the Andalusian's extended criticism of poetry's common practice of offering pleasurable prizes and rewards for virtue and show how the Commentator applies this criticism of poetry to the very author on whom he is commenting. In pursuing all three of these questions, we will focus squarely on Averroes's Commentary on Plato's \u201cRepublic,\u201d attempting to understand that text on its own terms but against its obvious background, the Republic of Plato. Nevertheless, in pursuing the teaching of The Commentary on Plato's \u201cRepublic,\u201d we cannot neglect the important research that has been done in recent decades on classical Islamic philosophy's understanding of Aristotle's Organon generally and of the Poetics in particular. We will therefore turn to the reports of other scholars on these aspects of Averroes, at least to the extent that such reports will be helpful in enabling us to understand better the Commentary on Plato's \u201cRepublic.\u201d\r\n\r\nIn the Republic, Plato initiates his analysis of the education of the guardians with a discussion of music in the latter portions of book 2; that discussion extends through much of book 3. Averroes's corresponding treatment of the education of the guardians through music is in the \u201cFirst Treatise\u201d of the Commentary, mostly in a relatively lengthy and isolable section that extends from 29.9 through 36.5. During his treatment of music, Plato divides his subject into three parts: \u201cmelody is composed of three things\u2014speech, harmonic mode, and rhythm.\u201d Averroes seems to accept this division, although he inverts the order of the three elements: \u201cA melody occurring in a narrative is composed of three things: rhythm, harmonic mode, and the speech to which the melody is set\u201d (34.30\u201331).","btype":2,"date":"2022","language":"English","online_url":"","doi_url":"https:\/\/doi.org\/10.1017\/9781800104983.005","ti_url":"","categories":[{"id":44,"category_name":"Poetics","link":"bib?categories[]=Poetics"},{"id":4,"category_name":"Politics","link":"bib?categories[]=Politics"},{"id":20,"category_name":"Plato","link":"bib?categories[]=Plato"}],"authors":[],"works":[],"republication_of":null,"translation_of":null,"new_edition_of":null,"book":null,"booksection":{"id":5350,"section_of":5346,"pages":"87\u2013110","is_catalog":null,"book":{"id":5346,"bilderberg_idno":null,"dare_idno":null,"catalog_idno":null,"entry_type":"bibliography","type":4,"language":"en","title":"Plato's Republic in the Islamic Context. New Perspectives on Averroes's Commentary","title_transcript":"","title_translation":"","short_title":"","has_no_author":null,"volume":null,"date":"2022","edition_no":null,"free_date":null,"abstract":"","republication_of":0,"online_url":"","online_resources":null,"translation_of":"0","new_edition_of":"0","is_catalog":0,"in_bibliography":0,"is_inactive":0,"notes":null,"ti_url":"","doi_url":"https:\/\/doi.org\/10.1017\/9781800104983","book":{"id":5346,"pubplace":"","publisher":" Boydell & Brewer","series":"","volume":"","edition_no":"","valid_from":null,"valid_until":null},"persons":[{"id":6196,"entry_id":5346,"agent_type":"person","is_normalised":null,"person_id":null,"institution_id":null,"role":{"id":2,"role_name":"editor"},"free_name":" Alexander Orwin","free_first_name":" Alexander","free_last_name":" Orwin","norm_person":null}]}},"article":null},"sort":[2022]}
| Title | Averroes's Aesthetics. The Pleasure of Philosophy and the Pleasure of Poetry |
| Type | Article |
| Language | English |
| Date | 2015 |
| Journal | Quaestio |
| Volume | 15 |
| Pages | 287–296 |
| Categories | Aristotle, Poetics, Commentary, Logic, Politics |
| Author(s) | Francesca Forte |
| Publisher(s) | |
| Translator(s) |
| The theme of the pleasure of knowledge is central in Averroes’ aesthetical reflection of Aristotle’s Poetics, regardless whether we side with the logical or with the moral interpretation. The first one stresses the continuity between Averroes and previous commentators in his attempt to reconstruct the Poetics as an integral part of the Logic itself, whereby poetic discourse is conceived as a form of reasoning based on syllogisms. According to the latter perspective, however, pleasure is central in that poetry is a tool towards the pursuit of happiness: in this perspective it is necessary to bear in mind some common themes present in other works by Averroes (particularly in the commentaries on the Aristotelian Organon – and especially the commentary on the Rhetoric –, in the commentaries on Plato’s Republic, and, last but not least, in the Decisive Treatise). The pleasure of contemplative knowledge must go hand in hand with the pursuit of communal happiness and therefore with the good and proper order of community and society. Poetry represents a central tool towards this aim in that it expresses moral truths which cannot not be communicated (to everybody) by means of logic and philosophy alone. |
{"_index":"bib","_type":"_doc","_id":"5240","_score":null,"_source":{"id":5240,"authors_free":[{"id":6049,"entry_id":5240,"agent_type":"person","is_normalised":null,"person_id":null,"institution_id":null,"role":{"id":1,"role_name":"author"},"free_name":"Francesca Forte","free_first_name":"Francesca","free_last_name":"Forte","norm_person":null}],"entry_title":"Averroes's Aesthetics. The Pleasure of Philosophy and the Pleasure of Poetry","title_transcript":"","title_translation":"","main_title":{"title":"Averroes's Aesthetics. The Pleasure of Philosophy and the Pleasure of Poetry"},"abstract":"The theme of the pleasure of knowledge is central in Averroes\u2019 aesthetical reflection of Aristotle\u2019s Poetics, regardless whether we side with the logical or with the moral interpretation. The first one stresses the continuity between Averroes and previous commentators in his attempt to reconstruct the Poetics as an integral part of the Logic itself, whereby poetic discourse is conceived as a form of reasoning based on syllogisms. According to the latter perspective, however, pleasure is central in that poetry is a tool towards the pursuit of happiness: in this perspective it is necessary to bear in mind some common themes present in other works by Averroes (particularly in the commentaries on the Aristotelian Organon \u2013 and especially the commentary on the Rhetoric \u2013, in the commentaries on Plato\u2019s Republic, and, last but not least, in the Decisive Treatise). The pleasure of contemplative knowledge must go hand in hand with the pursuit of communal happiness and therefore with the good and proper order of community and society. Poetry represents a central tool towards this aim in that it expresses moral truths which cannot not be communicated (to everybody) by means of logic and philosophy alone.","btype":3,"date":"2015","language":"English","online_url":"","doi_url":"https:\/\/doi.org\/10.1484\/J.QUAESTIO.5.108604","ti_url":"","categories":[{"id":21,"category_name":"Aristotle","link":"bib?categories[]=Aristotle"},{"id":44,"category_name":"Poetics","link":"bib?categories[]=Poetics"},{"id":23,"category_name":"Commentary","link":"bib?categories[]=Commentary"},{"id":27,"category_name":"Logic","link":"bib?categories[]=Logic"},{"id":4,"category_name":"Politics","link":"bib?categories[]=Politics"}],"authors":[],"works":[],"republication_of":null,"translation_of":null,"new_edition_of":null,"book":null,"booksection":null,"article":{"id":5240,"journal_id":null,"journal_name":"Quaestio","volume":"15","issue":"","pages":"287\u2013296"}},"sort":[2015]}
| Title | Averroes's Aesthetics. The Pleasure of Philosophy and the Pleasure of Poetry |
| Type | Article |
| Language | English |
| Date | 2015 |
| Journal | Quaestio |
| Volume | 15 |
| Pages | 287–296 |
| Categories | Aristotle, Poetics, Commentary, Logic, Politics |
| Author(s) | Francesca Forte |
| Publisher(s) | |
| Translator(s) |
| The theme of the pleasure of knowledge is central in Averroes’ aesthetical reflection of Aristotle’s Poetics, regardless whether we side with the logical or with the moral interpretation. The first one stresses the continuity between Averroes and previous commentators in his attempt to reconstruct the Poetics as an integral part of the Logic itself, whereby poetic discourse is conceived as a form of reasoning based on syllogisms. According to the latter perspective, however, pleasure is central in that poetry is a tool towards the pursuit of happiness: in this perspective it is necessary to bear in mind some common themes present in other works by Averroes (particularly in the commentaries on the Aristotelian Organon – and especially the commentary on the Rhetoric –, in the commentaries on Plato’s Republic, and, last but not least, in the Decisive Treatise). The pleasure of contemplative knowledge must go hand in hand with the pursuit of communal happiness and therefore with the good and proper order of community and society. Poetry represents a central tool towards this aim in that it expresses moral truths which cannot not be communicated (to everybody) by means of logic and philosophy alone. |
{"_index":"bib","_type":"_doc","_id":"5240","_score":null,"_source":{"id":5240,"authors_free":[{"id":6049,"entry_id":5240,"agent_type":"person","is_normalised":null,"person_id":null,"institution_id":null,"role":{"id":1,"role_name":"author"},"free_name":"Francesca Forte","free_first_name":"Francesca","free_last_name":"Forte","norm_person":null}],"entry_title":"Averroes's Aesthetics. The Pleasure of Philosophy and the Pleasure of Poetry","title_transcript":"","title_translation":"","main_title":{"title":"Averroes's Aesthetics. The Pleasure of Philosophy and the Pleasure of Poetry"},"abstract":"The theme of the pleasure of knowledge is central in Averroes\u2019 aesthetical reflection of Aristotle\u2019s Poetics, regardless whether we side with the logical or with the moral interpretation. The first one stresses the continuity between Averroes and previous commentators in his attempt to reconstruct the Poetics as an integral part of the Logic itself, whereby poetic discourse is conceived as a form of reasoning based on syllogisms. According to the latter perspective, however, pleasure is central in that poetry is a tool towards the pursuit of happiness: in this perspective it is necessary to bear in mind some common themes present in other works by Averroes (particularly in the commentaries on the Aristotelian Organon \u2013 and especially the commentary on the Rhetoric \u2013, in the commentaries on Plato\u2019s Republic, and, last but not least, in the Decisive Treatise). The pleasure of contemplative knowledge must go hand in hand with the pursuit of communal happiness and therefore with the good and proper order of community and society. Poetry represents a central tool towards this aim in that it expresses moral truths which cannot not be communicated (to everybody) by means of logic and philosophy alone.","btype":3,"date":"2015","language":"English","online_url":"","doi_url":"https:\/\/doi.org\/10.1484\/J.QUAESTIO.5.108604","ti_url":"","categories":[{"id":21,"category_name":"Aristotle","link":"bib?categories[]=Aristotle"},{"id":44,"category_name":"Poetics","link":"bib?categories[]=Poetics"},{"id":23,"category_name":"Commentary","link":"bib?categories[]=Commentary"},{"id":27,"category_name":"Logic","link":"bib?categories[]=Logic"},{"id":4,"category_name":"Politics","link":"bib?categories[]=Politics"}],"authors":[],"works":[],"republication_of":null,"translation_of":null,"new_edition_of":null,"book":null,"booksection":null,"article":{"id":5240,"journal_id":null,"journal_name":"Quaestio","volume":"15","issue":"","pages":"287\u2013296"}},"sort":["Averroes's Aesthetics. The Pleasure of Philosophy and the Pleasure of Poetry"]}
| Title | Music, Poetry, and Politics in Averroes’s Commentary on Plato’s “Republic” |
| Type | Book Section |
| Language | English |
| Date | 2022 |
| Published in | Plato's Republic in the Islamic Context. New Perspectives on Averroes's Commentary |
| Pages | 87–110 |
| Categories | Poetics, Politics, Plato |
| Author(s) | Douglas Kries |
| Publisher(s) | |
| Translator(s) |
| As our title announces, the current essay will explore three subjects that, in Averroes's Commentary on Plato's “Republic,” lead from one into another, almost like a short series of stepping-stones. The first part of the essay will consider the treatment of music in the Commentary, arguing that Averroes effectively reduces music to poetry. The second of the stepping-stones will show that the Commentary credits poetry with educating the young especially and in that way transforms poetry into a political art for disciplining and educating citizens. The third will take up the question of the Andalusian's extended criticism of poetry's common practice of offering pleasurable prizes and rewards for virtue and show how the Commentator applies this criticism of poetry to the very author on whom he is commenting. In pursuing all three of these questions, we will focus squarely on Averroes's Commentary on Plato's “Republic,” attempting to understand that text on its own terms but against its obvious background, the Republic of Plato. Nevertheless, in pursuing the teaching of The Commentary on Plato's “Republic,” we cannot neglect the important research that has been done in recent decades on classical Islamic philosophy's understanding of Aristotle's Organon generally and of the Poetics in particular. We will therefore turn to the reports of other scholars on these aspects of Averroes, at least to the extent that such reports will be helpful in enabling us to understand better the Commentary on Plato's “Republic.” In the Republic, Plato initiates his analysis of the education of the guardians with a discussion of music in the latter portions of book 2; that discussion extends through much of book 3. Averroes's corresponding treatment of the education of the guardians through music is in the “First Treatise” of the Commentary, mostly in a relatively lengthy and isolable section that extends from 29.9 through 36.5. During his treatment of music, Plato divides his subject into three parts: “melody is composed of three things—speech, harmonic mode, and rhythm.” Averroes seems to accept this division, although he inverts the order of the three elements: “A melody occurring in a narrative is composed of three things: rhythm, harmonic mode, and the speech to which the melody is set” (34.30–31). |
{"_index":"bib","_type":"_doc","_id":"5350","_score":null,"_source":{"id":5350,"authors_free":[{"id":6200,"entry_id":5350,"agent_type":"person","is_normalised":null,"person_id":null,"institution_id":null,"role":{"id":1,"role_name":"author"},"free_name":"Douglas Kries","free_first_name":"Douglas","free_last_name":"Kries","norm_person":null}],"entry_title":"Music, Poetry, and Politics in Averroes\u2019s Commentary on Plato\u2019s \u201cRepublic\u201d","title_transcript":"","title_translation":"","main_title":{"title":"Music, Poetry, and Politics in Averroes\u2019s Commentary on Plato\u2019s \u201cRepublic\u201d"},"abstract":"As our title announces, the current essay will explore three subjects that, in Averroes's Commentary on Plato's \u201cRepublic,\u201d lead from one into another, almost like a short series of stepping-stones. The first part of the essay will consider the treatment of music in the Commentary, arguing that Averroes effectively reduces music to poetry. The second of the stepping-stones will show that the Commentary credits poetry with educating the young especially and in that way transforms poetry into a political art for disciplining and educating citizens. The third will take up the question of the Andalusian's extended criticism of poetry's common practice of offering pleasurable prizes and rewards for virtue and show how the Commentator applies this criticism of poetry to the very author on whom he is commenting. In pursuing all three of these questions, we will focus squarely on Averroes's Commentary on Plato's \u201cRepublic,\u201d attempting to understand that text on its own terms but against its obvious background, the Republic of Plato. Nevertheless, in pursuing the teaching of The Commentary on Plato's \u201cRepublic,\u201d we cannot neglect the important research that has been done in recent decades on classical Islamic philosophy's understanding of Aristotle's Organon generally and of the Poetics in particular. We will therefore turn to the reports of other scholars on these aspects of Averroes, at least to the extent that such reports will be helpful in enabling us to understand better the Commentary on Plato's \u201cRepublic.\u201d\r\n\r\nIn the Republic, Plato initiates his analysis of the education of the guardians with a discussion of music in the latter portions of book 2; that discussion extends through much of book 3. Averroes's corresponding treatment of the education of the guardians through music is in the \u201cFirst Treatise\u201d of the Commentary, mostly in a relatively lengthy and isolable section that extends from 29.9 through 36.5. During his treatment of music, Plato divides his subject into three parts: \u201cmelody is composed of three things\u2014speech, harmonic mode, and rhythm.\u201d Averroes seems to accept this division, although he inverts the order of the three elements: \u201cA melody occurring in a narrative is composed of three things: rhythm, harmonic mode, and the speech to which the melody is set\u201d (34.30\u201331).","btype":2,"date":"2022","language":"English","online_url":"","doi_url":"https:\/\/doi.org\/10.1017\/9781800104983.005","ti_url":"","categories":[{"id":44,"category_name":"Poetics","link":"bib?categories[]=Poetics"},{"id":4,"category_name":"Politics","link":"bib?categories[]=Politics"},{"id":20,"category_name":"Plato","link":"bib?categories[]=Plato"}],"authors":[],"works":[],"republication_of":null,"translation_of":null,"new_edition_of":null,"book":null,"booksection":{"id":5350,"section_of":5346,"pages":"87\u2013110","is_catalog":null,"book":{"id":5346,"bilderberg_idno":null,"dare_idno":null,"catalog_idno":null,"entry_type":"bibliography","type":4,"language":"en","title":"Plato's Republic in the Islamic Context. New Perspectives on Averroes's Commentary","title_transcript":"","title_translation":"","short_title":"","has_no_author":null,"volume":null,"date":"2022","edition_no":null,"free_date":null,"abstract":"","republication_of":0,"online_url":"","online_resources":null,"translation_of":"0","new_edition_of":"0","is_catalog":0,"in_bibliography":0,"is_inactive":0,"notes":null,"ti_url":"","doi_url":"https:\/\/doi.org\/10.1017\/9781800104983","book":{"id":5346,"pubplace":"","publisher":" Boydell & Brewer","series":"","volume":"","edition_no":"","valid_from":null,"valid_until":null},"persons":[{"id":6196,"entry_id":5346,"agent_type":"person","is_normalised":null,"person_id":null,"institution_id":null,"role":{"id":2,"role_name":"editor"},"free_name":" Alexander Orwin","free_first_name":" Alexander","free_last_name":" Orwin","norm_person":null}]}},"article":null},"sort":["Music, Poetry, and Politics in Averroes\u2019s Commentary on Plato\u2019s \u201cRepublic\u201d"]}